The Art of Truly Listening: Seeing What Others Can’t

[00:00:25] Speaker A: Good evening, everyone, and welcome back to Two Witnesses Live. I'm watchful. And tonight we're diving into another powerful discussion as part of this week's theme from darkness to Light. Our mission here is clear. Prepare, repent, and do the things that Jesus has called us to do before his return. Tonight's topic is the art of truly listening. Seeing what others can't. In a world full of noise and distractions and spiritual blindness, true listening has become a lost art. But when we truly listen with our ears, our hearts, and the discernment of the Spirit, we begin to see what others miss. We hear God's call more clearly, understand others more deeply, and shine light into the darkness that surrounds us. This isn't just a skill, it's a calling. Jesus said, he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And tonight we're going to unpack what that means, how to listen with spiritual clarity, and how it can transform your walk with Christ and your relationships. So as always, make sure you like this video. Subscribe to the channel and hit the notification bell to stay connected. Let's walk together from darkness to light, starting with the power of truly listening. Let's get into it. So this, this kind of started because, so we're doing darkness to light. We're talking about narcissists to empath. Going from narcissist to empath, can somebody go, you know who, who has narcissistic tendencies become an empath? Listening and hearing is a primary attribute of being an empath. And today when I was looking this up, just that phrase, he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says, or he who has an ear to hear is used over 21 times in the Bible, three times in the Old Testament, 18 times in the New Testament. And what I find most interesting is seven of the usages in the New Testament are directed at the seven churches which as you know, my all encompassing mission in these end times is to proclaim the word to those seven churches, literally talk about the things that they need to do. That's our to do list of what to do. So it seems of the most vital importance that we should figure out what it is that the Spirit is saying so that those of us who have ears to hear can hear what the Spirit is saying. So before we get into this. How you doing, Paul? [00:03:11] Speaker B: I'm doing real well. How are you doing? [00:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah, good. It's been a long day. Really tired, excited to talk about this. This is one of my, this is one of my favorite subjects because I've, I Feel like I've gotten better at it in just the last couple of years. [00:03:29] Speaker B: The, you know, it. People really often think, you know, oh, I listened well enough. And what they do is they listen how much they're willing to listen. But improving your ability to listen has really profound impact. I mean, it can change your relationships, it can change your life. It can pretty readily. You know, it's not just a, you know, maybe it'll do that. It's. It will do that. [00:04:07] Speaker A: So why do you think it's such a critical skill to relationships? [00:04:14] Speaker B: You know, to me, it. To me, listening, good listening equates very, very closely with loving another person. And I. That connection to me is. Is very clear. But I want to explain that just a little bit. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Sure. [00:04:34] Speaker B: It's very hard, very hard to empathize with somebody if you cannot hear them. [00:04:40] Speaker A: True. [00:04:41] Speaker B: If you don't know what they're saying, how they feel, what's important to them, what they need, how do you empathize with them? [00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker B: And empathy is the gateway to loving somebody. So it's very foundational and it's very connected to love itself. And the better, you know, we're called to love our neighbors as ourself. Jesus is amazing. How much he loves. [00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:13] Speaker B: And if we want to be more like Jesus, we need to be better listeners. [00:05:18] Speaker A: So what do you think are some of the biggest barriers to listening and how do you overcome them? Or how does somebody overcome one of our listening? [00:05:29] Speaker B: One of them is pride. You know, somebody who is very prideful, they really often feel like, well, I have all the answers. I know all the everything. And so why should I listen? I already have the answers. I already know what you need. I already, you know, and they just tune it out. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:52] Speaker B: And, you know, and it's. That's a big barrier. Do you really know how somebody else feels? [00:06:02] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and that's the thing is like, pride comes in different shapes and sizes. Like, if you're constantly focusing on what you're going to say next to, you're completely ignoring the other person. You're not. You're not listening to them with an intent to hear. You're just waiting for the opportunity for you to speak. And that's not listening. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:06:24] Speaker A: And it's. [00:06:24] Speaker B: No, no, it's not. And it is it. And sometimes people will just pick off a little piece of what somebody says, but only so that they can use it so that they can speak, not actually hearing what the person's trying to communicate. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah, you. I imagine people can listen with an Intent to attack, too. To where, you know, they're. They only listen to. Enough. I've seen this happen in my life where people only listen. They only pick up on the words that they want to attack you for, and they end up missing what it is that you're actually saying. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Exactly. Yep, yep. And that's actually a common thing with people that are narcissistic is to just. It's like they listen enough to pack an ammo bag, but not enough to actually connect. [00:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what role do you think humility plays in being a good listener? Because humility is the opposite of pride, right? [00:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah, huge. Huge to me, but to me, humility is kind of an acknowledgment, an internal acknowledgement that you don't have all the answers. And that just opens you wide open to be able to hear what other people have to say, what other people have to share. And they may be trying to love on you and help you with something they know you need, but if you don't hear them, you don't get that. You don't experience that love. You don't get that help. You don't get the, you know, what they're perceiving that you need. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker B: So listening is huge. It's a really. An exchange. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it really is. It's an honest exchange of ideas. And that's one of the things that. Why it's kind of one of my favorite subjects now is I used to be in that boat to where very pridefully was just waiting for my opportunity to speak because I had things to say. And it really. It was. I've mentioned this several times on the show before the. I really started to learn how to listen when I was reading this book. Never split the difference. Negotiate like your knife. Life depends on it. But Christopher Voss, it's a book on negotiation tactics, but it's literally all about empathy. It's all about listening. And he goes through and he teaches you the things that they do in order to diffuse life and death situations. And it literally boils down to listening to the person who is making the threats. So empathy and listening works amazingly in high tense situations. Imagine what it can do in, you know, everyday conversation. Like, do you. How do you feel when you don't feel like you've been listened to? [00:09:34] Speaker B: Right. Quite honestly, I. If it's really important, you know, what I'm trying to communicate and I'm being ignored, it can. It can be downright upsetting and make you angry and. Oh, yeah, very destructive to the relationship Sometimes. Well, when. Often with. I've dealt with a lot of situations where people are in conflict and usually the biggest problem in almost all of those is not listening. If you can get them to listen, they can start connecting. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Actually, mediators, that's often what they do is they supply the ability for each other to hear each other. You know, they can talk and with one side and they will, they will listen to what the one party says and then they go over and, you know, and it's, it's a nice, good conversation with the one. And they're both listening with each other. They go over, talk to the other and they all. They're both listening there. And all the mediators doing is selecting the important pieces of information that get carried back and forth to help both of them listen to each other. And that's often what mediation is. [00:11:06] Speaker A: Somebody who listens really good and is maybe an expert at communicating to. Getting other people to listen. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Right, exactly. And they, you know, help them calmly find the common ground and solve stuff. [00:11:24] Speaker A: How can, what can individuals do? And this is the stuff that like, this is what really matters. Because if you're going to learn to listen to the spirit, you have to learn how to listen, period. So if you can't listen in your life, with your relationships, how can you expect to listen to the spirit when the spirit is speaking to you? So what kind of tips and tricks have you learned throughout the years to become a better listener? [00:11:53] Speaker B: One thing is I get probably half or more of the information by my. Through my eyes. I listen through my eyes and I give you an. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Oops. You still there? You're breaking up. I think we're losing you. Can't hear you. Hello? Paul just moved. So he's in a. He's in a new location up and we lost him. He may be going to another location. Yeah, so that, that, that book never split the difference. How to negotiate like your life depends on it. Some of the really interesting things in that. So there's a lot of tips and techniques. Some of the things that were most helpful to me to learn how to be a better listener is first of all, stop waiting for your turn. That's, that's a huge, That's a huge part of it is if you're just constantly waiting for your turn to speak, you can't honestly say that you're genuinely listening to somebody. So when you're listening to somebody, you should be able, you should be following what it is that they're saying with an intent to understand what it is that they're saying. And some of the tips. Tips that he gives you in that book are you should be able to repeat back the last three words or the last three most important words for what it is that was said during the conversation. Oh, here's Paul. There he is. [00:13:38] Speaker B: Can you hear me? [00:13:39] Speaker A: Yep. [00:13:40] Speaker B: Can you hear me? [00:13:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Can you hear me? [00:13:43] Speaker B: I give me. Okay, I can't hear you. Watchful, but okay. Can I go back to where I was explaining and. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Sure. [00:13:54] Speaker B: Okay. So one of the things I've done is I've had people show me a photograph of somebody I have never met before and then I've proceeded to tell them about that person off of the photograph. And I can literally talk for about a half an hour on the person that I've never met and share things about them that I am picking up off of one photograph. And I'll give you an example on how that's done. My hair you're going to see is often out of place. That's very normal because I'm a math science person. And that's immediately what it tells you. I think in terms of function, how things work. And my hair's on my head. It works. That's what it's supposed to do. Completely fits my view of the world. [00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker B: Now if you take somebody else who's always meticulous, they're out in the garden working and they look great. They look like they ought to be on a magazine cover. They are not a math science person. They are a creative person. What happens is when they get up in the morning, they look in the mirror, they see something that they can do a beautiful piece of work on. Beautiful art piece. Their face. [00:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:25] Speaker B: And they're meticulous and it shows just in their appearance. I. And then that tells you the likely topics. It tells you career choices. It tells you what they did well with in school, their interests. They'd be, you know, creative people are going to be interested in reading much more so than math science people. [00:15:47] Speaker A: So would you say. [00:15:48] Speaker B: But all of this information gets transferred off of a single photograph that's listening. I'm going to try and go to another location, watchful and see if I can. Well, I'm going to try and log in one more time, see if we can connect. And if not, I'm going to head out to that other location. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Sounds good. So it sounds like what he's describing there and it's really interesting. The way that he was describing it is observation. Seems to be listening with your eyes. And it's interesting because the Scripture. There's several places where it talks about, he who has eyes to see is used in conjunction with ears to hear and eyes to see. Here he is. Hang on a minute. Hello? Hello. Can you hear me? Hello? Hello? [00:16:43] Speaker B: I'm here. I see you, but I can't hear you. [00:16:46] Speaker A: That's so weird. I wonder what's going on. [00:16:48] Speaker B: I'm gonna head out, so maybe I can get that. It might be on my end, but I don't know what to punch. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Okay, sounds good. All right. Yeah. So let's look at some of these scriptures here. So let's go up to. So in the New Testament. So let's start in the Old Testament. I'm just going to read a couple of These. In Deuteronomy 29:29:4, it says, but to this day, the Lord has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear. Oh, wow, that's. That's an interesting context. Let's go look that up. I want to read the context that. Deuteronomy 29:4. Let me share this here. There you go. [00:17:53] Speaker B: All right. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Let's read the context on this. These are the words of the covenant which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. Now Moses called all Israel and said to them, you have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh. And so here's. See. So you have seen all that the Lord did. So now we're getting into kind of the spiritual stuff here. You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs and those great wonders. Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear to this very day. And I have led you 40 years in the wilderness. Your clothes are not worn out on you. Could you imagine 40 years and not having your clothes wear out? That's a miracle in and of itself. I'm lucky to get a year out of clothes. And your sandals have not worn out. Sandals are another thing. I'm lucky to get six months out of sandals. Three if I'm running. Have not worn out on your feet. You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or similar drink that you may know that I am the Lord your God. Interesting. So there's a blindness there. So that's. That's the first place where it talks about having ears to hear and eyes to see. And it's in context of not being given a heart to see those things. Can you imagine being that. That blinded, that you don't even recognize the Lord working? Let's see. So the next one is Ezekiel 12:2. Son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, who have eyes to see but see not, who have ears to hear, but hear not, for they are a rebellious house. Interesting. Rebellion and hearing going hand in hand. Let's go to Ezekiel 12. Read the context on this a little. Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, which has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear but does not hear, for they are a rebellious house. Therefore, son of man, prepare your belongings for captivity and go into captivity by day in their sights. You shall go from your place into captivity to another place in their sights. It may be that they will consider, though they are a rebellious house by day you shall bring out your belongings in their sight. Man, there's so many things about sight here, as though going into captivity. And at evening you shall go in their sight, like those who go into captivity, dig through the wall in their sight and carry your belongings out through it. And in their sight you shall bear them on your shoulders and carry them out. At twilight you shall cover your face so that you cannot see the ground, for I have made you a sign to the house of Israel. Interesting. All of these things that he's doing so that they can see but not understand, that goes hand in hand with what Paul, I think, is preparing to tell us when he gets to a better location with a better signal. Is that just by observing? You know, that's. That's one way that he listens, is by observing, because you can tell a lot about people by. By observing them. Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house who has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear but does not hear. For they are a rebellious house that goes hand in hand with somebody who's living in darkness. You know, the children of Israel are in a house, are living rebelliously. Narcissistic people who are prideful and not listening are rebellious house. They think they see and the things may be plainly in front of them, which this is an example of that look at all these things he's having him do in their sight, and they have no understanding of what it is so. In verse seven it says, so I did as I was commanded. I brought out my belongings by day as though I was going into captivity. And at evening I dug through the wall with my hand. I brought them out at twilight, and I bore them on my shoulders in their sight. And in the morning the word of the Lord came to me, saying, son of man, has not the house of Israel, the rebellious house, said to you, what are you doing? Say to them, thus says the Lord God, this burden concerns the prince in Jerusalem and all the house in Israel who are among them say, see, this is when God tells you to tell somebody something, it is very clear what he tells you to tell them. Say, I am a sign to you, As I have done, so shall it be done to them. They shall be carried away into captivity, and the prince who is among them shall bear his belongings on his shoulders at twilight and go out. They shall dig through the wall to carry them out through it. He shall cover his face so that he cannot see the ground with his eyes. I will also spread my net over them, and he shall be caught in my snare. I will bring him to Babylon, to the land of the Chaldeans, yet he shall not see it, though he shall die there. I will scatter to every wind all who are around him to help him. And all his troops, I will draw out the sword after them. So, yeah, so this is God was communicating to them the bondage that they were about to go into, which it's interesting because I believe this carries through even to today, because now we're at a place. So this is what the point of that song is this week is Zion coming out of Babylon, which I think it's in Zechariah 2, which talks about, in the end, Zion will need to free herself from Babylon, which ties really well into what it is that these seven churches need to do before he returns. So the seven churches I look at as though they're Zion. So let's look at. Let's look at the First Church, Revelation 2, and right here you can see he who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat for from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. What's interesting is every single one of these churches, that's how it ends. He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says. So listening is vitally important. And like Paul was saying, you have two aspects to listening. You have. Yeah. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I'm in a place I wish. Wish I had more light. But that's. But I can hear you. Good. [00:24:56] Speaker A: All right, cool. No, you're ominous now. Now you're like the ominous voice. So I was just, I was just going through. [00:25:04] Speaker B: My wrinkles show up a little better, too. [00:25:07] Speaker A: No, no, they don't. You're like a floating nose and cheeks. So I was just going through the first occurrence of. [00:25:23] Speaker B: I was actually. [00:25:24] Speaker A: Oh, go ahead. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I was able to hear some of it. So I have an idea where you're at. But one of the things I wanted to add too, that, you know, when I'm coming up and meeting a new person, and that gives me more information, a lot more information than a simple photograph. And when I, When I talk to them, I immediately direct the conversation to what I perceive is going to be of interest to them. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Oh, he probably hit the hang up button on accident. All right, let's go back to this while we wait for him. All right, so Revelation 2. Yeah. So it's interesting up there. Is that him? Nope. It's interesting that each of the seven churches are addressed. He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, to him. So, but that, that's the common saying. But each one of them gets a different reward. So in Ephesus, which is what we're looking at here in Revelation 2:1:7, Ephesus is. So they're the. Their accommodation. So each one of the churches has accommodation, a rebuke, either an exhortation or a promise, and then a call to listen, which is really interesting. This is what I'm going to be hammering until Christ comes back. I really believe that this is the template for what it is that we should be doing until he returns. Like, from my perspective, I know for the, for the last couple of years, the focus has been on the timeline, but I think we. I don't think there's anything left. There might be some things there to still see, but to continually dwell on only the timeline, I don't think is really important. I think we need to switch into this period of time to where we need to focus on listening to what the Spirit is saying to the churches. That's kind of why we're going through what we're going through with, with this changeover in Two Witnesses Live is. Yes, there's news that's happening. There's, you know, Ukraine just launched a missile into Russia. Russia returned. Yeah. So what? We could talk about those things, but I would much Rather focus on what time we have left, what it is that we should be doing. Yes, we know we're in the end times. Yes, we're likely in the great tribulation. So what now we should be focusing on what work should we be doing before Christ comes back. And central to that is listening. And with that. Paul's back. There you are. Can you hear me, Paul? [00:28:19] Speaker B: I think so, yeah. I'm right next to AT&T here, and I think I got a good connection. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Now you look. Now you look cool. You've got like this red, Red glow to your glasses. You look all hip. [00:28:31] Speaker B: I'm right at. I'm right at a stoplight here. And that's where the red's coming out. [00:28:37] Speaker A: That explains the red glow. The ZZ Top. [00:28:43] Speaker B: I had started, and I'm not sure how much got transmitted, but I was saying, when I see somebody that's new and I pick up these things, you know, this a creative person, then I may start a conversation up with them and say, oh, are you into artwork? You know, something a little bit broad, but that's right smack in the middle of what I think would be of interest to them. And if I nail it, which about 80 to 90% of the time, I do, we're connecting and we are listening to each other. And there's real warmth right from the start in that communication. [00:29:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:33] Speaker B: And that. That's like, you know, all eyes. And there's. The eyes will show so much more too. I mean, you can tell if a person's arms are crossed in front of them. And we've all kind of heard about that. But muscle language. Muscles. Yeah, yeah. And there's. It. The body language. I honestly, I. I find body language to be more honest and I find it to be much more. Communicates much better than words. Something that I was noticing in the Bible. It talks about how Jesus knows our heart before we speak to him, or God knows our heart before we speak to him. And I'm wondering if he's doing something similar or if we've got a little piece, little tiny piece of what. [00:30:30] Speaker A: You. [00:30:30] Speaker B: Know, taste of what. What God's doing. And it's just up to us to find it and be able to see that body language. And, you know, I don't know. I. You know, I'm. I'm looking inside of a person's mind and understanding how they think and what they like to think about off of. Off of an appearance. And I don't know, maybe that's something that is going on. Maybe it's entirely divine. I don't know. [00:30:58] Speaker A: But did you hear my comment about seeing? So it's interesting that this phrase, he who has eyes to see and ears to hear is used together. It's almost as though seeing or observation is the visual listening. Because so often observing, like even the creation, observing what God does, is how you hear the spirits. Does that make sense to where. It's just like I can. I can look at the way things are, and it helps me understand what the spirit is actually saying better. Likewise with people, if you're paying attention to what. To what you see people are doing, it allows you to understand better in order to communicate with them. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely, that's correct. And I know if you look up kind of listening skills, one of the things you're going to find is like, active. Actively participating. To me, actively participating. As you look at the person when they're talking to you, you're missing more than half of what they're saying if you're not looking at them. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Like if they're looking away and they're not even paying attention, your words are falling on deaf ears. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. And think about what they're really. What they're communicating to you. When they're looking away, they're communicating. I don't care about you. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:33] Speaker B: How is that? Love your neighbor. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. It's not. It's really not. [00:32:43] Speaker B: The. Yeah. One of the other things, too, that to me is a great listening skill. And you've probably heard of this watchful. We. We've done it some on the shows is reflective listening. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Mm. [00:32:59] Speaker B: You. You know what I'm talking about is. [00:33:03] Speaker A: That where you mirror the other person? [00:33:05] Speaker B: Exactly. Yep. Yep. You mirror what the other person is saying, and then they know you're communicating to them. Not really with words, but with how you're handling yourself. I heard what you said. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Well. And that's a technique that they teach both in acting and. And debating and conversation. Because by mirroring your opponent or mirroring somebody, you're. That that's really the way that you communicate. We have. People don't realize that. That you actually have these mirror neurons in your brain. That. That is. That is a vital part of connecting and communicating. They're very strong in children. That's why children will mimic the behaviors of their parents, because it's just naturally built into us that we. That we mimic things. And you know, some people, as they get older, I don't know if it's the mirror neurons dying or if they just get Prideful and egotistical to where they stop, you know, being interested in other people and are only interested in themselves. But the main point is that reflective behavior is vital to communication. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. It, you know, it. To me, I need to know that a person is hearing me. And when they are doing the reflective communicating, they're telling me very loud and clear, I heard what you said. And, you know, and along with that comes the message of, I care about what you said and about who you are. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:34:56] Speaker B: You know, I was at McDonald's the other day. It was kind of, you know, they've got those playlands inside of them, and I was sitting in a booth, and on the outside, and then there was glass and a booth on the inside. There was a little boy about. He was probably about 4 years old. And I look, you know, when you can. Right now, all you can see is my beard, but I got plenty of gray and I got a belly to go with it. I really got the Santa Claus look going on. And it's that time of year where the little kids just all over kind of cling to me and, you know, thinking, maybe I'm Santa Claus. They do that to a lot of guys. I know, but I. Anyway, he starts playing through the glass. I couldn't hear a word he said. And we carried on for probably a good 20 minutes having fun with each other. Never a word was said. That's communicating. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it reminds me. It's interesting. You reminded me of something that is really. I don't know if it's common in business, but it's a common story about teamwork to where they. They do these studies in the colleges, I think. I can't remember which college it is. This is something that we talk about in. In my professional career to where they put different groups of people together. Lawyers, architects, you know, regular people and children. And they give them what's called the spaghetti challenge, where you give them dry spaghetti and, like, marshmallows and the. The exercises that the teams need to build the biggest tower. And time and time again, it's always the kindergarteners who win the challenge because they're so. They don't have the barriers and the pride and the ego that we develop later in life to where they're able to communicate more freely and get through problem solving significantly faster. But it's interesting because time and time again, they can consistently win, and it's because of their ability to communicate. So that tells you how important communicating is and, you know, getting. Getting your own head out of the way even architects lose. It's hilarious. [00:37:17] Speaker B: Yes, that is funny. The kindergartners win the. Win the trophy. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's. It's a really common. It's a really common study. If you just go look up. I think it's called the, the spaghetti challenge. Um, it's something that's really common. You can. People talk about it on YouTube all the time. We used to do it when we would do like at my work, we used to do build days to where it was team building type stuff to where we would try to work on communicating. And that was one of the things that we would. We would actually do just for an exercise on how to work with people and how to listen. And listening is vital to success. [00:37:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know something I've noticed a lot in communicating with people, when you get in kind of the word aspect of it. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:08] Speaker B: People will choose which words that they use will give you clues about who they are as a person. To go back to kind of the creative and the. And the math numbers people, creative people often say, I believe that. And the reason why is their lives are very emotionally driven and they feel things, they believe. And those words kind of group together. When you get over to a math science person, they don't believe that whatever they think that because they calculate, they strategize. They think that those kinds of their word choice will tell you a lot about who they are. And there's kind of that aspect. But there's also within trades or fields, different industries. They developed sub languages. It's almost, you know, you hear somebody from the north. I probably sound pretty Minnesotan. I don't know if I do I sound normal. It's rest of you guys that have these crazy accents. [00:39:28] Speaker A: People tell me I have an accent. [00:39:30] Speaker B: I don't hear it, but it with it. But it's similar to that. But it's within trade fields. And they will more commonly use a particular word for something than people outside that field will. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:49] Speaker B: And they'll use words differently too. Like an objection to an attorney means one thing. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:58] Speaker B: It generally means shut up because the judge has to rule. Right. And when you get over to a salesman, an objection is something completely different. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:11] Speaker B: An objection is the customer has this concern and you need to address it with them. [00:40:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's a big part of language too, is are you saying the same thing? Do the words. Are you using the same words but the words have different meaning? Is that what you're saying? [00:40:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And they'll have radically different meanings. [00:40:36] Speaker A: All too common in marriage relationships. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Right, right. And understanding that those points of confusion exist, helping clarify what a person says. The mirroring technique works very well to assure good communication, good listening. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So we've got about 20, a little less than 20 minutes left in our time today. Let's, if you, if you don't mind, let's talk. I want to move into listening to the spirit. So now that we have a better understanding of, you know, some tips and techniques and there's a lot more, guys. I mean like this is a field that you can, you never really master. Right. It's a journey that you start and you get better at it. And the better you get at physically listening and communicating with people, it's going to have a spiritual impact. Let's move into what it means to listen to the spirits. How is listening to the spirit listening to different from listening to others? Any idea? [00:41:50] Speaker B: I, I, to me, when I feel moved by the spirit is the word that I would use is moved or encouraged to go a particular direction. And I often have feelings similar to that when I'm communicating with a person. And it's, I don't know, sensing might be a way to describe it, but I will feel that when I'm talking to a person. [00:42:23] Speaker A: So also, I'm so happy that you brought up feelings because feelings are one of those, that one of the, one of the grenades in communication. They can be incredibly helpful and they can also destroy communication. But I think it's so important and I often wonder if this isn't the reason for the clean living laws for what you eat and how you live and how you're cleansed. Because if, if you're, if your hormones are, are properly level and you're properly nourished and you're getting the right amount of oxygen and exercise, you have far better control over your emotions than when you completely ignore all that stuff. So if you're not actually loving yourself and taking care of yourself, it's going to affect not only how you listen and communicate to others, but also how you listen and communicate with the spirit, how you listen to the spirit. If you're just, if you're just running on every single whim, every single emotion, if you think every emotion is God leading you somewhere, you're, you may be misunderstanding, you may be getting the wrong cues, but if you've got your, if you, if you're loving yourself to the point to where you know yourself, you can identify the difference. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. And you know, a lot of times I Do kind of corroboration. So listening to the Spirit, if I'm getting one sense of feeling and then I compare that to what I either I recall from the scripture or open up the scripture and read it, they need to be. They need to correspond. If they don't connect, then I've got something else going on and I need to get to the bottom of it. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's what I find is you have to take care of stuff more often than not. Listening to the Spirit. I don't know that I've listened to the Spirit until hindsight. Usually it's just through the course of the day doing what the. Doing the things I know I need to do. The Spirit I find communicates with me, whether it's through thoughts and emotions, but typically it's just the common course of business for me. And even in high intense situations, it's as. It's hard to explain, but as you are mindful of right and wrong, it's, it's. It really comes down to trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not unto your own understanding and all your ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your paths. So even in the quiet times and the intense times, if you have, you know, if you don't have fear and you have that confidence and trusts, it seems to make it easier to listen to the Spirit, which in my experience tends to present that you actually heard that the Spirit was talking to you in hindsight. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Right. Right now, I find that really interesting that you're experiencing it kind of the same way that I am. And how the diet and good clean living and not filling your system up with garbage matter, it makes a lot of sense, but I'd never really thought about that before. [00:45:39] Speaker A: I find that I life is so much better when I take care of myself. It's so easy to get caught up and neglect yourself. And when I'm doing a better job at taking care of myself, everybody is happier. It's almost like the blessing of God is on my life because I'm communicating better, I'm listening to better. I'm able to more quickly to respond when I know, you know, when, when God is maybe, you know, pushing on my heart to do something. If I'm in an intense situation and my own will is getting in the way to where, like I don't want to do something. When, when I'm living cleaner and healthier, it's so much easier to go, no, God wants me to. To. This is. It's his will, not my will. So it's like you have a deeper understanding of what's right and wrong. That makes sense. [00:46:28] Speaker B: It does. There's empaths are they absorb emotions from other people throughout the day. They will experience other people's emotions so strongly that they confuse other people's emotions with their own. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:46:47] Speaker B: And it can be difficult to distinguish between them. Now, what happens after going through a day in absorbing all these emotions out of everybody kind of thing, they will eventually hit a point where they need to do what's called self love. And that is where they take time for themselves. And that's really all it is. And we see actually Jesus doing this. He would, I think, didn't he go on up into the Mount of Olives to be alone? And the disciples found in there. Yeah, that's exactly what that was. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. He was doing that a lot. [00:47:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:31] Speaker A: Alone time that you really. It's easier to listen to the Spirit. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Right. And that's also kind of. That cleaning out what's inside you. It's so that you're ready to reengage and be ready and be able to listen and. And so forth. [00:47:50] Speaker A: I want to. With our. With a little bit of our time, I want to go through a quick overview of the seven churches because I really think this is super important that each one of them has a call to listen. So let's talk about Ephesus first. So Ephesus is mentioned in Revelation 2:1:7. Their accommodation is that they work hard, they persevere, and they're intolerant of evil. Their rebuke is that they lost their first love, that spiritual passion that they initially had. And the exhortation for them is to repent and return to their first works. The call to listen is he who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Who do you think that applies to today? You need me to repeat any of that? [00:48:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. What. What are they doing? [00:48:48] Speaker A: The highlights are they. They used to be spiritually passionate, but they've lost that passion. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Boy, a lot of that to me feels like people that I know that go to the brick and mortar churches that, that are not. And I. And I want to add to that, that are not engaged in the small groups, the, you know, the Wednesday night things, the. And so forth. They. They're going in and they're putting check marks in the boxes. But that's about the extent of it for them. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's Good. Like, as a regular course of life, we should have a spiritual passion. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:32] Speaker A: Which I. Which it's interesting. I think that's one of the reasons why it's important to take time off on the Sabbath. Like with your labors, you need to take time off to spend it with God in order to keep that passion fresh. If you're constantly burning out, it's going to be hard to have a passion. [00:49:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Probably a good thing to do would be taking time if you're. If you're constantly busy, would be taking time in order to figure out how to rekindle that spiritual passion if you're losing it. [00:50:00] Speaker B: I think so. And I. You know, that's what we were talking about with Jesus. Taking time away as well, is you need to recharge and really focus on what really matters to you and in. In your life. [00:50:19] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, let's move on to Smyrna. So Smyrna is talked about in Revelation 2. 8 through 11. Their commendation is they endured persecution and poverty, but they are spiritually rich. Smyrna is one of the churches with nothing to repent from. They have no rebuke. Their encouragement is to just remain faithful unto death. The promise. He gives them a promise. He says that the crown of life and freedom, they'll. They'll receive the crown of life and freedom from the second death. And their call to listen is he who has an ear. Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death. Now, Smyrna, just to recap that, they're the church that's typically under crushing pressure. These are the people who put themselves in harm's way or put themselves in difficult situations. You remember we were talking with Ashley about how do you forgive? How do you suffer? How do you sacrifice? And you do it from a position of strength. Smyrna did it from a position of strength. And they have nothing to repent from. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. That's kind of a difficult group to point at, but I can tell you what it means to me. I just don't have the whole answer on it. I think I've got a bit of it. To me, that is people who are quite empathic but have a personal boundary of God the Father's will. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:54] Speaker B: They are. They are loving their neighbor big time. And they're following the Lord. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Right. They're loving the Lord regardless of the consequences. [00:52:05] Speaker B: That's right. Yep. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Wow. [00:52:07] Speaker B: That love for others is what is often at. You know, it would drive some of that crushing pressure they're stepping in when a lot of other people would just run. [00:52:21] Speaker A: I imagine Smyrna is probably full of a lot of true prophets, like the ones who cause division, because in order to bring division from darkness to light, they often endure intense pressure. I mean, look at some of the prophets in the Old Testament. The pressure got so thick, they ran, I think. Elijah, right? [00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And go ahead. [00:52:47] Speaker A: Are you ready to move on to pergamum? [00:52:49] Speaker B: Yes, let's do that. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Pergamum is Revelation 2:12 through 17. Their commendation is their faithfulness in a city where Satan's throne is, which, that's interesting. Like if you're faithful despite your cultural, your culture and surroundings. The rebuke is that they tolerate false teachings. The teachings of Balaam and Nicolatians. This is why I say pergamum is the church with doctrinal issues. Their exhortation is to repent or face the judgment of Christ's word. And I think of, you know, the word is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword. There's a lot of language that talks about he will come and fight with words, literally, probably the word, because people are, you know, can you imagine in the day that he returns when he says he never knew you? That's going to be hard to hear. Here's their call to. Here's their call to listen. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give some of the hidden manna and I will give him a white stone with a new name on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it. Pergamum. So this, when I, when I think of pergamum and because of the doctrinal issues, this is kind of what I focus on is, is those people who are religious, like who, who don't. Like hardcore, hardcore narcissists who don't listen, who are not empathic. Right, right. They think they know everything. They think what they were taught is right. They think what they've figured out is right. They think that God is talking to them and they refuse to listen and consider anybody else's opinion. [00:54:34] Speaker B: That is real interesting. I was wondering what you thought on that one. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Because they're off on the doctrine. Because they are imposing their own doctrine. They're preaching from the heart. From their own heart. [00:54:55] Speaker A: From their own heart. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Not from the scripture, not from what God's really truly showing them. [00:55:06] Speaker A: And it's interesting that their Commendation is that they still have faithfulness despite being surrounded by Satan's throne. So you've got evil and godlessness or maybe even idolatry all around you. And the accommodation is that they're. That some are faithful. But it's that rebuke that gets you, which to me, it's like you should. You should be. Be willing to consider you're wrong. Right. Like if. If you're so adamant that you're right that you won't hear somebody who's trying really hard to communicate something to you, if you're not willing to listen to what they're trying to communicate because you think you're right, you probably fall into that category. I've. I've been in this category before. There's things that, you know, that I was raised to believe, that I refused to consider that were wrong. And now in my later years, I consider everything I ever learned wrong. I challenge me personally, I challenge everything I know to prove it to myself. That's why you've heard me say some crazy things. People have heard me say some crazy things on this channel because they're probably in that same boat. They probably believe some of the same stories that I was taught. But when you go to actually try and prove them to yourselves, you cannot prove them from the scripture. And I have an open challenge like, please prove this to me from the Scripture. And what happens most of the time is people get into a gaslighting contest to where they tell you you're not spiritual or take it to the Spirit. That's not proven anything. [00:56:34] Speaker B: No, no, no, it's not. No. It's scripture by bully method. [00:56:42] Speaker A: Right. That's not communication. No. That's oppression and slavery. [00:56:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:53] Speaker A: Running out of time. We have 1, 2, 3, 4 more churches to get through. All right. Thyatira, Revelation 2:18 through 29. Their accommodation is love, faith, service, and patient endurance. Their rebuke is that they're tolerating Jezebel, which is a false prophetess and an immoral lifestyle. Their exhortation is hold fast to what is good until Christ returns. And the call to listen is, he who has an ear. Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Interesting. So they're just called to listen. So this is interesting, that the rebuke is false prophetess and immorality. Who do you think falls into that category? [00:57:36] Speaker B: You know, I would like to hear what you think as well here. But I'll tell you, to me, that's a lot of the Christians, people who are really practicing their faith. But they're too connected to the world we live in. Because the. To me, there is Jezebel type stuff all over the place. Flip on the tv, you know, that's. That's what it is. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm reminded. Kip always likes to remind you that Jezebel. I think it's Jehu. Jezebel is paired with Jehu. So it's usually somebody who's dominant oppressing somebody who's submissive. So often, this is one of the reasons I often consider cults to fall into the Thyatira category, to where you have a religious narcissist who is oppressing people. [00:58:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:58:39] Speaker A: Often there's immorality and sexual immorality. You know, this is where you get people who. This might be too soon, but people who jump into relationships because of lusts, and then. Then. Then somebody ends up hurt as a result of that. That's one thing. But, like, there's a lot of. I think Thyatira is probably one of the biggest assemblies, one of the biggest groups out of the bunch because of this. And it's from my experience with churches, there are so many churches that fall into this category to where the church follows somebody who they believe is a prophet or a person of God who has everybody else in submission, and they're afraid to question anything that person says. I don't think people realize how big of an issue that actually is among the assemblies. This is probably. And this is one of the reasons why it's like hammering cults and narcissists is like, I think this is something that we need to. This is where a lot of our labor should focus is how to free the people that are enslaved or entrapped or in prison in these kind of situations, which it's interesting because their exhortation is just to hold fast to what is good until Christ returns. So even if there's people who find themselves in that situation and they don't know what to do if they can't get free, there's an exhortation to hold fast. If you read about Thyatira. Read about Thyatira. Yeah, we don't have time to read about it, but it talks about what he's going to do to Jezebel and her children. He talks about giving her time to repent, and she doesn't. It's like, yeah. All right. Moving on to Sardis. Do you have anything else about Thyatira? [01:00:36] Speaker B: No, No. I was. Your take on it was quite interesting. [01:00:41] Speaker A: Okay, so let's go to Cyrus Sardis is Revelation 3. So you're in a new chapter and it's one through six. Sardis is one of the worst out of the bunch. So their commendation is a few have remained faithful. So they don't have a very good commendation. Just a few people have remained faithful. The rebuke is they're spiritually dead, despite having a reputation for being alive. Their exhortation is to wake up and strengthen who. Those who remain and repent. And the call to listen is he who has an ear to hear. Let him hear. What the Spirit says to the Church is the one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments. And I will never blot his name out of the book of life. Yeah. I often associate this with the Roman Catholic Church. And the reason is because they have so many rituals and prayers and things that are equivalent to witchcraft that they're not doing anything spiritually for people. They just teach them rituals and emotions to go through and they do the feel good stuff, you know, that makes people feel like they're spiritual, but they don't really do anything good for people. They're not making people. And. And this is not true for all Catholic churches. There are definitely Catholic churches, I think, that are. That are doing well. But by and large, Roman Catholic Church as an entity is guilty of this. How many saints that people pray to, how many idols that they. They push down people's throats? I could be wrong, but that's what I think of. [01:02:20] Speaker B: I had one thought on it, and that was once saved, always saved. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't do anything else. You're good, right? That's a good one. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. What's interesting is yesterday when I was looking up where narcissists fit. What? Chat GPT. Then take this with a grain of salt. Chat, Chat, GPT hallucinates. But I thought it was interesting that it actually put narcissists in. In Sardis, because they don't do anything good for people with their pride and their ego. Pride and ego comes before destruction. They're basically spiritually dead. [01:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they're not connecting with people. They're missing out on all the good things in life. [01:03:11] Speaker A: Yep. All right. Philadelphia. So this is the good church. This is where you want to be. This is the example, and I believe. So we talked about Smyrna, which is the church that I think focuses on loving God. I think Philadelphia, which means the word Philadelphia, means brotherly love. I think it exemplifies what it means to love your name, love your neighbor as yourself. So this is mentioned in Revelation 3, 7, 13. Their commendation is faithfulness despite limited strength. And they keep God's word and do not deny his name. There's no rebuke. They have nothing to repent from. But he gives them a promise of a place in God's temple and a new name. It's interesting that. It'd be interesting to do a study on being given a new name, because I see it repeated oftentimes. I've done some studying on it, and I know it's really important, but it's like Jesus says that he will tell you his new name. Different. One of the churches, I think it was Pergamum. Yeah, Pergamum. He who overcomes will get a new. A stone with his new name written on it that only he knows. It's interesting. There's a lot in a name. Anyway, Philadelphia's call to listen is he who has an ear to hear. Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Oh, that's interesting. It's the same as Thyatira, as they both have the same call to listen. But. Yeah. So this is. These are Philadelphia and Smyrna are my two candidates for the candlesticks that represent the two witnesses. Like, these are the two assemblies who are doing the most for Christ. They're doing the labor that he expects the laborers to be doing before he returns. You have the group that is really good at loving God, Smyrna, despite crushing pressure. And then you have Philadelphia, that despite having little strength, they're really good at loving their neighbor as themselves. And for me, the way what I see that strength being is spiritual armor. So, you know, these are people who may not know chapter and verse. They may not know why they do things. They just know that, you know, they may not know why they want to give, you know, give food to somebody. They just know that that person needs food. You know what I mean? That's who I think of as Philadelphia. [01:05:39] Speaker B: I'm. I'm hearing a lot of empathy in it. You know, my mind kind of goes back to, you know, impasse that are following the Father's will again, like the other earlier one, and I don't remember all the details between them, I thought one might have been strong and the other, you know, was a little weak or something, but they were both doing exactly what they should be doing. And, yeah, empathic people can be that way. They can be strong and they can be. They can be a little weak too. [01:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Meekness does not equal weakness. That's what we used to say when I was growing up because. [01:06:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:21] Speaker A: Moses was. Moses was the meekest man on earth, but he was very, very strong. [01:06:26] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:29] Speaker A: All right, last one. Here we have Leo Dia. So this is Revelation 3, 14:22. The rebuke is that they're lukewarm. They're neither hot or cold and spiritual blindness due to self sufficiency. So something that I like to explain in regards to Leo Dia because it's not always immediate. Immediately clear what being hot or cold means. From what I understand is being hot means like therapeutic. Like it's a good hot. Like. Or I mean, you could think about it as being on fire. You're not on fire like Smyrna or cold. Cold would be like cold and refreshing. It doesn't mean like in the, in the sense of being cold and as in not interested. It's cold. As in like drinking a nice ice cold drink. It's reflected, refreshing. I think of that like Philadelphia. So like, to me, when I read this, the lukewarmness is not being like Smyrna or Philadelphia, but they're spiritually blind because of their ego and pride. They're blind. They're. They're blinded by their own ego and pride. So it's basically it. To me, it almost sounds like it's referring to, you're not like Smyrna or Philadelphia, but you're like all the other churches that have to repent, right? So their exhortation is be zealous and repent. So basically change. Christ offers fellowship if they open the door. So he says, you know, if he's knocking and if they'll open up and let him in, he'll sit down and eat with them. And then they're called to listen. Is he who has an ear. Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne. Nice. There you go. There's. There's the last church. [01:08:11] Speaker B: That one kind of strikes me as people who just are not listening at all. They. They're sailing through life. You know, they got enough money for their pizza and their YouTube and their big screen TV and. And that's good enough. I don't need to worry about anything else. Money in the bank. And boy, and they're really missing everything. Connection, relationship, that's where it's at. That's way better than any of that stuff. [01:08:47] Speaker A: That reminds me of a scene from a movie that keeps popping up on my YouTube feed of this rich guy sitting in the mental ward with his mother who has dementia. Have you Seen this. [01:09:00] Speaker B: I'll have to. [01:09:01] Speaker A: I'll have to post it, and I'll have to find it and post it. But he's sitting there visiting his mother, who has dementia, and he's talking about, you know, I've lived a life of, you know, luxury. I'm rich, I'm happy, I have everything that I've ever wanted. And here you are, somebody who dedicated. Talking to his mother. Here you are, somebody who dedicated your life to serving others, giving away everything you have, not enjoying anything in life. And look at your reward. You're. You're suffering illness and mental disease. You know, you're not here to enjoy my time visiting you. And she has a moment of clarity and says, sometimes Satan will just let you coast along in life because he knows you're not going to do anything good to where if he puts any pressure on you, then you might realize that there's. There's something even greater. [01:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:59] Speaker A: And like, that's. That's the scene. It's just like, you know, people get caught up in the. In the love of the things of the world that they. That they think they're rich. And that's like Laodicea. It's like you think you're rich because you have these physical things, but inside you're spiritually dead. Like, nobody wants to be around you. No one wants to talk to you. You're not helping your neighbor. You're not a benefit to Christ. You're not a benefit to the kingdom. [01:10:32] Speaker B: Right. Yep. Well, watchful. I really enjoyed talking about this subject with you. It is a deep subject and it is so easy to overlook. We think we have two ears. Of course we hear. Not necessarily. There's a lot of depth to this. [01:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Arguably, I think this is like the most. Just based on observation, the fact that all seven churches have a call to listen and repents. Or they don't. They don't have to repent. They all have a call to listen. Even the ones who have nothing to repent from still have a call to listen to me that says that if we want to hear what the Spirit says, we should pay attention to that, to listening, and figure out what it means for us. So with that, wish you guys a wonderful night. God bless you and shalom. Shalom.