Can You REALLY Change from a Narcissist to an Empath?

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of Two Witnesses Live. Tonight, we're talking about From a Narcissism to Empathy. Now, Paul was originally supposed to be here because he's our resident narcissist expert, but I think we can still kind of pull this off because I've got. I've got the scripture that he wanted to go through tonight. And I think this will make for some interesting conversation. But before we do that, I wanted to let you guys know that I actually have had an epiphany last night while we were talking after the show about basically what it is that got what. What I feel my purpose in these. In these times right now is it came up when we were talking about, you guys have probably noticed we've been making some changes to the show, trying to figure out how to model this in the best way to serve God so that we can take care of people without being overwhelmed. And it came up in conversation about, I know that my all that I want to do that God is putting it on my heart that all that I want to do is work on the book of Revelation. When I first said that, Paul was kind of like, I don't know about that. But here's the thing. Those seven churches, those letters that Jesus had addressed to the seven churches, I believe wholeheartedly, are the template for what we're supposed to be doing in these end times. He specifically addressed seven assemblies. Two of them have nothing to repent from, but five of them have stuff they need to repent from before he returns. And what I meant by, like, what we should be doing in the end time is that our focus should be how can we help people identify if they're in one of those assemblies and figure out what they need to do before he returns? Because by doing that, we can help people, hopefully even ourselves. We can come together to recognize what the household needs to do before he returns, what the body of Christ needs to do before he returns. I mean, because if you think about it, you've got these messages to these assemblies. They have attributes, and they have things that they need to do before he returns. It seems prudent to me that we should figure out if that applies to us. And so what the epiphany is, is you've noticed, and you may or may not have noticed that our show, we're trying to get more organized and structured by doing, like, a theme every week. This week is Darkness to Light. And we've had specific top. You guys actually haven't been privy to all the topics, but we're basically trying to pre plan our entire week so that we can, you know, focus on studying and thinking about these things. So we have stuff to talk about. This week has been darkness to light, heavy on narcissism to empathy, because we've. There's been people who have been involved in, you know, being oppressed, who have, who have come out of that oppression. A lot of people in that scenario. So what I figure we could do, which would be the most helpful is if, within that, within those themes, if we could figure out which church we're addressing. And I'll explain this more as we get into tonight, but I just kind of wanted to let you guys know that there, that like there's. I think we're getting more refined on what it is that this show should be doing. Does that make sense? Does that make sense, Ryan? [00:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it made sense to me. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:49] Speaker B: And I know I. Yesterday I kind of hijacked the show a little, took it off topic. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, no, that's fine. Well, I love the round, I love the discussion. I love the roundtable discussion. But there's such an immense value and like if you can identify if you're in Pergamum or if you're in Thyatira or even if you're in one of the churches that have nothing to repent from, Smyrna or Philadelphia, like, I think that people should want to. Would want to know that. For me personally, I assume that I'm in Smyrna or Philadelphia, one of the churches that don't have anything to repent from. But like, I have an honest desire to figure out, well, do I have anything I need to repent from? Like, we should be honestly evaluating ourselves in our situation to determine, well, shoot, maybe I do have something I need to repent from before he comes. Maybe I have something I need to change before he comes. And I think that's like the anti narcissistic mentality, like, you know, that is like the mind of Christ. Like, what can I do to love myself and love my neighbor better? Does that make sense? Yes. And I think by getting clear on it, like we're really. Then I think we'll really be nailing what we need to do before he returns. So like, if he, if he comes back and he says, so what have you been doing while I was gone? Well, we got your letter, sir. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Honestly, I'm hoping we're doing this and he comes back and then we can be like, right, here we go. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, well, the thing is, I've been trying to figure out like, so we, we, we've gone through some growing pains in the show to where, you know, we've done the, we've done the social network, we've had the emails where we, we honestly want to help people. But the thing is, is, you know, we're only, you know, one or two or three or four. We're only a small group of people. We can't help the tens of thousands of people who need help. And I've been trying to figure out what can we do so that we can encourage people that we can give them the tools so that we can help them, but so that they can also pursue avenues to get help. Because I don't want to be seen as the source of salvation for somebody. I just want to help somebody realize that there's tools and resources out there so that they can repent and, you know, get the, get the deliverance that they need. Does that make sense? I can only, I can only do. [00:06:14] Speaker B: So much point the way not to say, hey, listen to me, but, you know, let's study together. Let's focus on that and learn and grow from it, from each other. You know, iron sharpens. Iron is the best way to say it. [00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's Gregory back here. There you are. Are you st. There's Gregory. Nope, he's not stable yet. He's still trying to figure it out. Yeah. Technical difficulty, difficulties on Yasplane's connection. But yeah, so I think. So what that means is each week when we try to plan the what it is that we want to cover for the particular week, I think we're going to be picking, based on whatever the topic is, what church we're going to be addressing. So, and this was really eye opening because today is empathy to nar, to narcissism to empathy. Can a narcissist become an empath? And just out of curiosity, I thought this was my initial thinking, just based on what I've studied from the seven churches. I thought that surely narcissists were fit in the category of Thyatira because Thyatira suffers that woman, Jezebel. And if you look at Jezebel, she is very manipulative, selfish, self centered. I'm like, okay, so surely are you there, Gregory? Surely you know, that would be where the narcissist would be. And I think because of that, Thyatira is probably one of the bigger churches because you get a lot of narcissists who gather large numbers of people to themselves. But it was really interesting. Chatgpt had something different to say. So I was just asking questions and the first one that came up was so it's like, which. So this is what I asked ChatGPT, which church from Revelation 2 and 3 would most likely relate to someone who is a narcissist becoming an empath. And it responded Laodicea. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Really? [00:08:44] Speaker A: Right. That's what I said. I was like, laodicea. Why would it be Laodicea? And this is what it said. The Laodicean church is rebuked by Christ for being lukewarm, neither hot or cold, and for their self sufficiency in a. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Way being neither hot or cold. They're not hot or cold for either the for Father, but they're self centered, thinking of themselves only. So maybe in a way that is Right. [00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And check this out. So because of their self sufficiency and their spiritual complacency, they believed they were rich and needed nothing. Like, wow, that's. That is legitimate like that. What? The narcissists that I know think they are God's gift to people. They don't think they need anything. They don't think they need to change. [00:09:35] Speaker B: It reminds me of the woman sitting on many waters claiming that she needs nobody later on in Revelation. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And so here. This is. So it's their call to repentance for those in Laodicea. Just as narcissists are called to humble themselves and seek change. Christ calls the Laodiceans to repentance. He says, those whom I love, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. Yeah. So then I asked it, what about religious narcissists? Because I'm thinking. Okay, wait a minute. I'm pretty sure that narcissists have got to fit in thyatira somewhere, right? Nope. So this is what it said. Religious narcissists. Man, I wish Paul was here. We're missing out on Paul because Paul's. He's been studying this stuff for so long. There's. There's different types of narcissists. So I've just picked up on a couple of them. One of them is religious narcissists. And those are narcissists who use religion as their vehicle for getting their. What they call fix. Their. Their admiration from people, their. Their glory, their love, their sense of having to control people. Stuff like that. They use. They let me go. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Smyrna, was that where you. [00:11:01] Speaker A: No, no, Smyrna is the church under crushing pressure. Hey y. We hear you. Can you hear us? [00:11:08] Speaker C: Yep, I can hear you now. Some reason my phone was not producing audio, huh? [00:11:13] Speaker A: Weird. [00:11:14] Speaker C: Fifth time's a charm, I guess. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Well, you're here now. This is good. [00:11:19] Speaker C: I'm here now. [00:11:21] Speaker A: So have you heard anything that, that I've been talking about? [00:11:25] Speaker C: You were mentioning something about narcissism and. Yeah, I was kind of thinking about the, you know, who the biggest narcissist is of all is the church. And what I mean by that is not, you know, when we hear the word church, we kind of think of Christians or something like that. But the church, the word church means ecclesia. It's, it's the called out, right? [00:11:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:54] Speaker C: So Israel was the church back from the old or the first covenant, First Testament, ecclesia. They were the called out. So korra means to call out. Also where you get the word Quran, to recite Qumran, to draw out of the cave, to rise up. And so you think about just from his historical perspective of Israel, when they were called out of Egypt, what did they do? The first thing they did was replaced Yahuwah with an ox, right? Or with a golden calf. And they said, this is Yahuwah that brought us out. So they had all the burden, the beast of burden bring Israel out. And they said, well, this is who brought us out. So this is Elohim, this is Yahuwah. And later on they were taken and got bit by the serpents. It says, and so that Moses raises up a serpent on the pole and he says, look to the serpent and they were healed. And then later on you read about in Hezekiah, they end up worshiping the snake on the pole. They, instead of worshiping the actual source behind it, they worship the thing that saved them. Same with the bull, same with the serpent. It's like the Messiah said, you know, you'll lift me up. And so people start worshiping the Messiah, they replace Elohim with, with, with Jesus, right? And that's kind of, that's kind of the narcissistic, I guess the whole, you know, looking at all of history. When Antiochus Epiphanies, Epiphaneros, right? He, he says I'm God and manifest in the flesh, he puts Zeus in the temple. He puts the abomination that makes desolation in the temple grounds and replaces the true Elohim, the true creator. And that's kind of, you know, we see that in I, I personally went to church, you know, Christian church. And that was replacement theology was kind of the thing that Israel disobeyed and we kind of stepped in and took over and they would say the birth, birth of the church happened at Pentecost. But actually there Peter stands up and he says, ye men of Israel. Right. There's no, there's no Gentiles there. There's no people from the nations that didn't come in until later on in life. But it's this replacement. It's always this replacement. Antichrist doesn't just mean against, but it means to replace like antipasta. And so that's one of the biggest. That's the abomination that makes desolate is to. To violate the first commandment to replace Yahuwah with the thing that he used to save people with. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:39] Speaker C: And that's like the ultimate narcissist is, is to do that. And that's something that we've inherited is that replacement of replace the laws. We don't need those anymore. Replace the Elohim. And it's just that that's the replacement theology that has crept in. And that narcissistic spirit that rises up and tries to usurp the authority, that's deep. [00:15:05] Speaker A: That's actually right along what we were talking about when you were trying to connect is I was trying to associate. So where do narcissists fit in the seven churches that Jesus addressed? And I was surprised because I was asking, just asking Chat GPT some questions because I assumed that narcissist would fit in Thyatira because of Jezebel. But it actually came back to where no, it actually they fit in. They can fit in Laodicea because the Laodiceans thought they were rich even though they weren't doing anything. But here's the other one, Sardis. It came back with Sardis. Also the church that is dead. They have a name that they live, but they're dead because they're not doing anything good. And that reminded me of the false prophets that when Jesus comes back, he says, many will say to me in that day, lord, Lord, did we not cast out demons in your name? Did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not do many wonderful works in your name? If they're actually in the church of Sardis and they're doing these things under the false pretense of holiness, but in reality they're not doing anything good for him. That's a huge wakeup call. And I think it's really closely related to what you were saying to where so often people ignore God and do what they think is holiness. And that's where they get them in trouble. They think that what they're doing Is they think they're rich, they think they're powerful. They think that they're so high and mighty. When the reality of it is is they're not doing anything good for him because they're doing it for themselves. They're not doing it for him. [00:16:44] Speaker C: I was reading Isaiah. I just did a video on it, actually, about the message to Babylon. I believe it. Isaiah 45 or something like that. And he's prophesying to Babylon, and he says, sit down. You know, he's telling Babylon to humble himself. And if, you know, from Isaiah 14, Lucifer, what is. What's from the Latin, but it's. It's really talking about Babylon. Who says, I have exalted myself. I have lifted myself up. And that's kind of a communication way for, you know, that we are seated up in the heavenly heavenlies, right? And we as a body can exalt ourselves. We used to have that. I'm a son of God with all power and this and that. And the Messiah was like, you know, he had that understanding as well, but he humbled himself. You know, he took on the form of a servant instead of form of a mighty God that could rule, you know, and that was his reward to get to rule because of his humility. And so we see that, like in Babylon, It's. He's saying, sit down, listen. He says in that he's like, I will not meet you as a man, you know, because whose ways are higher than our ways? His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He doesn't, you know, come down to our level. It's. He has to lift us up. And you just see that within, you know, so much, the pride and the arrogance that, you know, we. We can fall into that trap of being exalted in that sense, and as sons and children, which is. I mean, it's a good thing. It's a good thing to know and understand, but can't let it usurp our positions. [00:18:27] Speaker A: So what do we do? So if you're a narcissist or if you know you're a narcissist, because this is the topic tonight, from narcissist to empath. Can narcissists become an empath? Which I think they can. What do you do? I mean, I have some records here in the scripture. Do you guys want to look at some of these things or do you want to talk about. I'll leave this up to you guys for what you want to do. Do you want to talk about identifying narcissists, maybe even in yourself? Narcissism and how you've changed. Because I could talk about that because I do believe I've had narcissistic tendencies that I've gotten better over. Or would you guys prefer to look at some records in the scripture about people like King Saul? Definitely. Narcissists, David narcissist who became an empath, stuff like that. Which direction do you guys want to go? [00:19:18] Speaker B: I'll leave that to Gregory. It doesn't matter to me. I will refer back to the suffer and try to provide insight from that when I can. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:27] Speaker C: Well, it's interesting you mentioned we could look at Saul. I was. I was reading through that actually, the other day, and he essentially gets born again. Like, if you read it says that he. His face changed, he starts to prophesy he was made king. But then, you know, over time progressed, he ended up seeking, you know, evil spirits. He ended up getting into necromancy and doing things of the ways of the world and stuff. Yeah, but if you read, like, I think I want to say somewhere it's in Samuel 2 or 6 or 16 or something like that, where it talks about just his countenance changed, and it was. It's almost like his being born again. And, and that's, you know, I say I'm. I'm the biggest narcissist I know, obviously, because that's. That's the competition I have to deal with is myself more than. More than anyone else. But to your point is like, what. You know, how. What do I do? And it's like it's looking at the Messiah and, you know, he shows us the way. He shows us how to engage and encounter that with. Within our own selves. Like we mentioned. We talked about that last time we met. I believe about, you know, when he's talking to Satan, is he really talking to, like, some angelic Satan? Or is he having this battle within himself that he's. He's hungry or. I'm the son of Elohim. I could, you know, I could command legions of angels. I can, you know, toss myself off of this, like, have. Have this ongoing dialogue within himself. Within himself. Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Ryan, why don't we read out of First Samuel. Why don't we do 1313? Yeah. [00:21:15] Speaker B: All right, so this would be good. [00:21:17] Speaker A: We'll. We'll. We'll look at. We'll look at a narcissist from the scripture. Because King Saul, I think, is a really good narcissist. Have you ever, guys, have you guys ever seen that TV show Kings? You heard about that show? I haven't such a good show. It's a modern day representation of David and Goliath and it has the back and forth. It has like a modern back and forth of Saul and David, their relationship. Really good. It's hard to find. I think it was on CBS or something like that. Let's do 1st Samuel 13 and let's read 8 through 14. [00:21:53] Speaker B: All right. You want it out of the Sephiroth? You want me to read out of. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah, let's do. Let's do it out of the Sephir. [00:22:01] Speaker B: All right. Well, you have to get used to the names a little bit. [00:22:05] Speaker A: No, it's good to expose people to the Hebrew version of the Names. I know Gregory appreciates the Hebrew and the actual names. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Well, 13, eight in this one. And the Sephiroth says Saul's unlawful sacrifice. And he tarried seven days according to the set time that Shel had appointed. But Shel came not to Gilgal, and the people were scattered from him. And Shaul, that would be Saul said, bring hither an ascending smoke offering to me and peace offerings. And he offered the ascending smoke offering. And it came to pass that as soon as he had made an end of offering the ascending smoke offering, behold, Shemael came and Shaol went out to meet him that he might salute him. And Shamuel said, what have you done? And Shaol said, because I saw that the people were scattered from me and that you came not within the days appointed, and that the Pelesha team gathered themselves together at Michmash. Therefore, said I, the Pelish of team will come down now upon me to Gilgal. And I have not made supplication unto Yahuwah. I forced myself, therefore, and offered an ascending smoke offering. And Shamuel said to El Sha, you have done foolishly. You have not guarded the commandment of Yahweh Elohayka, which he commanded you. For now would Yahuwah have established your kingdom upon El Yasharl forever. But now your kingdom shall not continue. Yahweh has sought him, a man after his own heart. And Yahweh has commanded him to be captain over his people, because you have not guarded that which Yahwah commanded you. [00:23:51] Speaker A: So that's a good example of. He was given instruction on something to do. And because of his own fear and what he thought he needed to do, he disobeyed. And as a result of that disobedience, he was not allowed to be king. So there's consequences. [00:24:12] Speaker C: I was just saying this too, like, you know, he. He's doing. Sometimes we get in trouble with this is like, well, I'm going to do it, but I'm going to do it my own way. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Yep. [00:24:22] Speaker C: So that that can be part of it is like, well, I'm going to keep the commandment, but I'm going to try it this way. I'm going to offer on this instead. You know, that's something I think even. And that was, you know, talking about Paul in his letter to. In the Romans, you know, it says that they went about to, you know, tried to get salvation by their own works and stuff. And so even people were keeping the commandments to an extent, but they would kind of do it their own way. And it's like what Messiah refers to whitewashing and stuff. And I think that's something that's, you know, we're challenged with as, as a. As a body of believers is, you know, we have this English versions of our Bible that are. English is the common language like the Vulgate. It's vulgar. Right. It comes from this Latin and we like getting back to the Hebrew. What does it really say? What was the original language? Because you always lose that in the translations and know, like you're talking about Ed Sepher. It's pretty much like a King James, but it changes. Changes the names a lot. And it's. We have to go deeper into, you know, the Hebrew. And that's where I kind of study the Paleo Hebrew, if you get into that. And every single letter has like an ultimate story behind it. Like there's so much more richness and deeper understanding to it when you understand just how words are put together and how things are, you know, understood from that Hebrew that pale the old ancient. The ancient path, as it says in Jeremiah. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I was thinking back to the topic of the different churches and what they need to repent from. I know pergamum struggles with doctrinal issues because they adhere the Nicolaitans and the doctrine of baal. I think it is. I wonder if when we're looking at like the original texts and going back to look at what things really mean, if that's not us like repenting. Like if you can help somebody who believes something that's based on a lie, based on a translation or translation error and they're using that and teaching others. So if you believe a lie and you're teaching a lie, clearly you should repent from doing that. So when we actually study to show ourselves approve, is that the repentance that is required for pergamum the other thing that was interesting about Pergamum is they had huge libraries and a lot of gods, so they. They struggled with, like, worshiping gods. [00:27:20] Speaker C: Is Pergamo. [00:27:21] Speaker A: That's. [00:27:21] Speaker C: Is that in. Is that close to. Was that Lystra or like Iconium? Is that in that same region? So I was just reading that about the other day about Acts, where it talks. It calls. They called Barnabas, Mercury and Jupiter, and Jupiter is from antiquity, is. Is Zeus or what they call Jove. Right. And so, yeah, they, you know, they said the gods have come to us in the flesh. And that's kind of just that. That doctrine that, you know, has perpetrated throughout. Throughout the. Throughout the body. And some of these things that, you know, when we read in English, we get a different perspective of actually what's. What's taking place. And I guess that's kind of like the disadvantage sometimes, too. It's like, how do you know what you're reading? I ask that all the time. It's like, especially if you're not fluent in Greek or Hebrew. And even, you know, they burned a lot of the Hebrew scriptures first coming out of all the pogroms and stuff like that and burning down the temple. And so we're kind of just left with this version, King James Version. Like, it's, you know, even our translations that come to us from Masoretic text are only like from 1000 AD or most of our Bible version. And a Masorite is means a master of tradition. And that's what the Messiah Yahusha was accusing. These people like you, you guys keep your traditions more than the commandments of Elohim. And even in Jeremiah says, you know, we. You. Even the scribes have lied even back in their day. So they were. We're not dealing with anything new, right? You know, nothing new. [00:29:04] Speaker B: Small advantage on that, though, with the fact of the Dead Sea Scrolls were found and, you know, they're in the process of dating, comparing them to what we have now. And a lot of stuff we have now is still comparable. And the best one is like the Ethiopic version of a lot of things is the closest to the original. But that's also why I like using Stephen Pigeon at Sephir, because he went and he studied all of those, and they took the best they could out of all of that and put it into a book, and it's still not accurate. Don't think the suffer is the end all be all. There's still things in there that are slightly off, but if we go back to them, and read the original words both mostly to get to, like, Elohim and Elohika and get away from God and get away from Lord, because those translations are actually not good. One of the fallen angels was Gad, and they called him Lord. So they're assigning God to Gad and Lord to him, but they're doing it in a way where they twist it and assign it to Elohim or Elohika or all them. And those words are just different variations of Father's title. It's not his name. His name is Yahuwah, but it's a title of him, the seven spirits. And I believe Jesus has one. [00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, when I think about that, it's interesting because some of the narcissists, some of the most hardcore narcissists that I've dealt with in my life are the. Are those who thought they. Who were very caught up in pride and ego to where they. They knew something to be true. And I was never allowed to question what was true or the established doctrine. And it's interesting because even somebody like Stephen Pidgeon, who has actually gone and looked at as many of the originals that he could get his hands on, he has a team of people that works with him. [00:31:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:20] Speaker A: He actually has a publishing house. Even somebody who has gone through and looked at, you know, the best that we have available today still acknowledges that we don't have things. Right, right. So this idea of, of, you know, having this cancerous ego on a. About a doctrine, I don't know, that's not really the right way. It's. It's just a dangerous doctrine when, when you believe your, when you believe so strongly that you're right about something that you allow it to cause division. And that's, that's something that I've seen from some of the narcissists who have been the most hurtful and damaging in my, in my experience. Because I grew up with a lot of people who. I was not allowed to question the doctrine. Like when I, when I would ask why, you know, does. If, if we're here, this is a good one. If we're born again. When was, when, when was my second birth. Yeah. [00:32:25] Speaker B: You know, I can't even remember mine, to be honest. I can't even think, when did it change? Yeah. I can't pinpoint a date. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. But they, I, they, I would. I used to get punished for asking questions like that because it's just like you dare to question the doctrine. But here's the thing is, like, I understand the idea of receiving like a spirit within. Right. And being born. But when, when you actually look at the, the Greek for the word born again, I think it's anaganeo, born from above or conceived from above. So we translate it born, but it actually is the word conceived. Does that make sense? [00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not familiar. [00:33:14] Speaker C: The ultimate born again is the resurrection. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:33:20] Speaker C: And that's, that's, you could look at that at the context where Messiah is talking to Nicodemus. He's like, you know, when, when the Son of man returns, that's when the resurrection happens. That's when you shall be born again. How do you not know these things? And that's kind of talks about that in Colossians. One who being the firstborn of all creation to be resurrected into that new body. And then that's when he's like officially the son of Elohim. That's he's glorified, you know that Godhead becomes, becomes united with the Father in the fullness of deity, with the resurrected body. So he's born out from the grave in a sense. And so that's the ultimate. We have just a little taste of it right now, but it's at the resurrection, it's when we're truly, truly born again, when we're truly saved. Always say like salvation isn't a one time event, but it's a process that like you said, we were conceived, we have to grow as we go, as we go out through life. And you can fall away, you can turn your head. Just like Saul here, Sha'ul, he's, you know, he turned, turned from, you know, he had the Holy Spirit, he had, he was prophesying, he was doing great things and he, you know, he turned from that. And so that's why we have to endure till the end and stay faithful. And we're going to mess up, we'll slip up and everything. But that's why we have an advocate. You know, we have a mediator between us and Elohim and that's his son. You know, his son is, is that priest that go between us and the Holy Father. [00:34:56] Speaker A: So yeah, and see and that, that actually makes more sense to me that the resurrection is, is the new birth. Because I know that I was born once. I've, my mother was a midwife. I've been through a lot of births. I don't remember my birth, but I've been through a lot of births. So I understand like what is involved in actually a birthing process. So that just that terminology, being born again didn't make sense to me if it was something that was just, I'm still in the same body. I don't have a new body. But then when you think about, you know, when you get a new body, that is a new birth, because you're actually getting a new body. So the resurrection, when you put on immortality, that would be when you actually get your. That second birth, that fullness of the promise. And then it makes more sense that right now it's just the conception that we're in this process of shaping our hearts because it's with the heart. Man believeth unto righteousness. Right. So it's, it's not of salvation. It's not a matter of works. It's not like we're working for our salvation, but we're, we're growing. It's almost like that, that seed of the Holy Spirit is growing inside of us and it's, it's getting to the point to where, when, when we do receive that new body, that's when you're going to see the fullness that, that full. That's when you're truly born again. [00:36:16] Speaker C: I mean, that's, that's kind of the metaphor too that Peter talks about. You know, Kefa, he says that, you know, you get the word is the seed, you know, the Word is planted in you, so you get that new birth, so to speak. But we do change here. And you know, while we're on earth, we are born again in a sense that we become new people. But at the same time, it's not like I always was always taught like you get a, you get. Once you become a child of Elohim, you can no longer not become a child because you have that seed in you. Except the Messiah says, you know, that seed's going to fall on certain types of ground, you know, and not everybody is going to, to endure till the end. And that's where it talks about in Revelation. It's like those who follow the Messiah and keep the commandments. [00:37:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:03] Speaker C: Until the end. You know, they're gonna, you know, have to, have to be faithful all the way through. I think of like Israel, when they come out of Egypt, they were saved. They were saved out of Egypt, but not everybody made it into the promised land. [00:37:19] Speaker A: And I think that's. That is a good example of somebody going from narcissism to empathy is if you're willing to actually consider that you might be wrong, then it opens up the door for you actually to actually learn. And, and if you can listen and learn. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I was Listening to Stephen Pigeon, I think I shared that video in the signal group that you have something about the life. Sorry, I was listening to a different one today. But what I'm remembering is he talked about the nefesh is a living soul, but it's not a proper living soul until it becomes a rukoth. And the women, when the angels came down, they had, they were ruakoth, but then angels had to change them to a nefesh so they could lie with them. So thinking it of it reversely that if you're nefesh, but when you're born again, you become rakoth. So the spirit of the father basically attached with him, he does a better job explaining it. Sorry, my. When I'm listening, yeah, I go, I'll. [00:38:31] Speaker A: Have to, I'll have to. I'll have to listen to it. Yeah. So is this in regards to like the watchers when they came down to lay with the women? [00:38:39] Speaker B: Well, yes, but I wasn't trying to reference that. It was in the reference of talking about how you're born again. So you would go from a nefesh, a living being, to a living soul from father by becoming a rook, the rook was inside you. And they say, you know, the flesh and the rokoth fight against each other. You know, our soul and our flesh are always at odds with each other. [00:39:08] Speaker C: Yeah, that was kind of a change I. I had from my understanding from previously was about says that when Adam, when Yahuwah breathed into his nostrils, that he became a living soul, a nephew. That word kai is the same in Hebrew as ket roads, like, it's like chi. [00:39:30] Speaker B: It's nefesh haya, nephew. [00:39:34] Speaker C: So. But it's spelled with a het and a yod, nephew, Chinese get the chi from. But it says that he became a living soul, he didn't receive a soul. That's something that we've inherited through churchianity and stuff is, you know, you have like some ghost or some type of separate thing from you. But it just means a breathing creature, like animals are nefesh, Kaya, right? They, they breathe. They're breathing creatures. So anything that has breath, life is a soul creature. It doesn't possess a soul. And it's not something that's separate from us. It's you breathe and you have a mind and you have a conscience. And as soon as you stop breathing, that all goes away. And then you, you know, you're dead. So that soul, that breath is gone from you. And so the point of me bringing this up was having I had this some run ins with some narcissist on Facebook. I made a post about my body, my choice. You know, my body, my choice. And then Corinthians it says, do you not know that your body belongs to the Lord? Right? And so people were, you know, the. The narcissist came out. You know, they came to correct me and let me know that. And of course, these people, I'm like, this is a letter addressed to the church. You know, judgment starts within the church. And my message was, if you're a Christian, you're claiming to be, you know, quoting that mantra, my body, my choice, then, you know, look at this verse. It says that you don't. Your body doesn't belong to you. And so people got into it with me about, you know, soul life, being in a baby. Since a baby doesn't breathe, it doesn't have soul life. And that's why I was explaining like, you know, we're not, you know, we don't possess souls. We are souls. You know, just. There's still oxygen in the blood. It's still a human being. It's still, you know, you knew us before. And it was just came into probably one of the biggest debates I had in a while on Facebook. And, you know, people. People, even atheists, you know, they jump in. I'm like, this isn't even a message to y'all. You know, this is about within the household I'm speaking here. But so it's just interesting, you know, how that little. Little bad doctrine, a little misunderstanding. And even looking at the verse and where it talks about a pregnant woman, if something happens to the child, our King James English is really just does it no justice. But it, you know, it's. If the pregnant woman's child, if there's harm to it and it dies, then it's eye for an eye. But if nothing happens, then he just pays a fee. But when you read it, like, in the English and stuff, it's kind of vague and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So. But you could just see that kind of narcissistic spirit within the tone of some of these people. And one woman's like, well, if she pretty much just said, I would rather worship Satan than, you know, be a part of any of that. It's my body. I want to do whatever I want to with it. And I was like. So I was like, well, I'll pray for you. [00:42:39] Speaker A: That's a heartbreaking myself. Yeah, that's a heartbreaking subject to talk about. That's probably one of the hardest subjects that I have talking about is that one. Yeah. Yep. That's one of the. One of the hard ones. I was raised that way. I was raised that, you know, a baby doesn't become a living soul until they take their first breath. Well, how do you explain their blood being oxygenated? So is there a difference between the oxygen that they're receiving from their mother breathing and them taking their own first breath? And I don't like to argue on whether it's right or wrong, but it's one of the most hurtful subjects. And I know it's got to be hurtful for God, because if our names are written in the book of life, before the foundation of the world, I think it was David on Monday was saying that they're now able to see the moment of conception. And we used to think that it was a race for the first seed to get to the egg to make it in and that the egg would let it in. He says, no, it actually only lets in, like, there can be millions of sperm up or seed up against that egg, and the egg will only allow one in. And it's a. There's like a spark, and it's just like that is God allowing that seed into the egg. It's like that just says that that one is chosen, right? That one is the one that's allowed to live and grow. And if you want to restrict that and take that out and kill it, man, that's. That gets me. And I gotta stop because I'm about to cry. That stuff is so hard because it's just like. That is life. Those are the people. And look, I understand that there are hard situations, you know, in the case of terrible stuff happening, that's a completely different subject in my mind. But the. The way that people use it is basically like birth control is just so destructive. [00:44:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. That's the major issue. And that's what I say, you know, is. Is Yahuwah's hand too short, that he can't, you know, turn tragedy into triumph? I know a woman in another fellowship. I participate. Her father is her uncle, and she's a grown woman. She has four children. She builds churches in Africa. And she's a wonderful person, has wonderful children. And, you know, that was a terrible, terrible situation. And we wouldn't want that on anyone. But it's like, don't punish the child. Punish the person who committed the crime. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Even. Even in my own family, I have someone who both the mother and the father had a Lot of physical ailments. They had down syndrome, autism, like a whole combination of things. And they had produced a child together. And they tried so desperately, the medical people who were over these two tried so desperately to get them to abort the child. But this is actually on my wife's side. But her family fought for the child's right to be born. And she was born a beautiful, perfect baby girl who has, who's gone through the military, one of the smartest people that, that I know. Super intelligent, super accomplished. And, you know, it's just like, God, we're meant to be here, right? I mean, it's like he knows who we are and we're meant to be here. It doesn't matter where you've come from or the circumstances. Yes, there are sometimes bad circumstances, but something good can still come out of it. [00:46:10] Speaker B: My son says something perfect on this. How do you know you're not aborting the person who will cure cancer? [00:46:16] Speaker A: Right? Exactly. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you just don't know. And it could have been that child that came from the two people that were handicapped. So you never know. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Yep. I've seen children also born. Who her mother. This was a long time ago. Her mother had. Was HIV positive. And this was before they actually had the cure. I don't know if you guys know this. They actually can cure HIV now, from what I understand, this was back before they had any. It was relatively new. This was. Jesus was like 30 some odd years ago. But the mother was HIV positive and they wanted to abort the child because they didn't want it to inherit the disease because they couldn't do anything about it. And she ended up having the child, and the child was born without it because the child's blood is separate from the mother's blood. It never intermixed. And again, another success story of somebody who's alive and well today and, you know, could have been, for various reasons, terminated, but they didn't. But it's just like those things. It's just like I keep seeing those things over and over again and it's just like, I don't. Yeah. Anyway, we're back to. [00:47:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I want to get off on that. But I mean, you just think about that as a, you know, as a narcissistic spirit in a sense. It's kind of like that's part of coming to Messiah is sacrifice of self, you know, not sacrifice of your child. Or, you know, it's. It's really that change, that being born again to say, you know what, I'm going To put myself aside. This is an inconvenience. But, you know, it's more of an inconvenience for somebody to live a life hollow and empty, you know, without. Some people don't, you know, ever get that second chance or anything. And so it can be a lifetime of pain and struggle from just, you know, that. And, but if they have a child, it can be a lifetime of joy and happiness and stuff. And so, but that spirit of, that's why I told one person, I was like, you know, you see that through all out the scriptures is they're always after the children. They're always after the babies. They always want to take away. And I don't know if you saw the video I did on, on Uranus, but that Hebrew word Uranus. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Uranus comes from, or I was laughing, I was laughing at the way that, the way that you separated it out. I'm like, he did that on purpose. [00:48:45] Speaker C: Uranus or the heavens. But, you know, there's a, there's actually a cult that's called. Let me see if I can think. Oh, or, or, or Ush Da. So basically what it is, it's a, some Sumerian ritual where they believe they take small children, that they believe they can take the souls and stuff out of, out of them. And so it's just, I think you read about that in the Book of Jasher too. Talks about drinking the blood and stuff of children. It's just, it's just a pattern, you see within that, that spirit of, you know, trying, trying to take out the holy seed, you know, Yahuwah's seed. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I wonder how much of that stuff is actually, like, real. Or if it's just people who have gone so crazy that they do these things thinking that they're able to literally, like, drink somebody's soul. I mean, I, I, I, I can kind of understand, like, what they do with. I have to be careful because YouTube doesn't like these words. There are, there are things that people can do with blood that can help, especially stem cells. But I almost wonder if, like, a lot of these, like, groups that aren't doing that stuff, that are doing, like, the rituals and stuff like that, if there's really no spirits involved with it, other than the fact that they're just like, murdering people. You know what I mean? Like, hurting and murdering people, because, well. [00:50:13] Speaker C: There must be something to it, because, you know, that's a commandment from Genesis chapter nine. It's like, don't drink the blood. You know, that's. [00:50:22] Speaker A: Life is a big Genetics. [00:50:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Life of the flesh is in the blood. It's like there must. They must know some. Something is there for a reason, and they use that to try to stay. Stay young. [00:50:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point. Anyway, we're getting close to the end here. Let's. Let's go to Psalm 51 and the sufferer and read this. So this is. So can you go from narcissism to empath? This is David going from narcissism to empath. [00:50:52] Speaker B: The whole thing. [00:50:54] Speaker A: Let's just see where it goes. It's kind of. It's not that long. [00:50:57] Speaker B: All right. The title is Created me a Clean Heart. Oh God, have mercy upon me, O Elohim, according to your loving kindness, according unto the multitude of your tender mercies. Blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from my inequity. Cleanse me from my sin, for I acknowledge my transgressions and my sin is ever before me. Against you you only have I sinned and done this evil in your sight, that you might be justified when you speak, and be clear when you judge. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, you desire truth in the inward parts and in the hidden part. You shall make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean. Wash me and I shall be wither whiter than snow. Excuse me. Make me to hear joy and gladness that the bones which you have broken may rejoice. Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O Elohim, and renew a right ruach within me. Cast me not away from your presence, and take not you ruach, Hakodash for me. Restore unto me joy of your Yeshua and uphold me with your free ruach. Then will I teach transgressors, transgressors your ways and sinners shall be turned back unto you. Deliver me from blood guiltness, O Elohim, Elohi of my Yeshua. And my tongue shall sing aloud of your righteousness, O Adonai. Open my lips and my mouth shall show forth your praise for your desire, not sacrifice, else would I give it you. Delight not in ascending smoke offering. The sacrifices of Elohim are broken ruach. A broken and contrite heart, O Elohim, you will not despise. Do good in your good pleasure unto Zion. Build the walls of Yerushalayim. Then shall you be pleased with sacrifices of righteousness. With ascending smoke offering and whole ascending smoke offering. Then shall they offer bollocks upon your altar. [00:53:10] Speaker A: So that was written after Nathan, the prophet Nathan, had confronted David for what he had done with Bathsheba, for going in unto Bathsheba. So that was him lusting after another man's wife, sinning with her, and recognizing that sin after being confronted and repenting. So this is. I think this is such a beautiful psalm, man. I should write. I should turn this into a song. The song this week was. Is based on Isaiah 52. This would make a really good song. All about repentance and, like, the heart you should have, like, wash me recognizing, you know, that, you know, we're dead in trespasses and sins. So, I mean, there's hope. Like, I know I've been narcissistic. I've had narcissistic tendencies. I've been narcissistic about things in my life. I've done things I'm not proud of. Something I talk about on the channel all the time is when my wife kicked me out of the house. She had every right to, you know, and it was probably the best thing that happened to our. To our relationship because we had to fight like hell to get back to each other. It blew my mind how much the world tried to tear us apart. As soon as. As soon as the world could get just a foot in the door, it tried to tear us apart. And we had to fight to get back to each other. Repentance is hard. Can be hard. Some. Well, repent. Yeah. Repentance and changing can be hard because typically it's under tribulation. Like in my case, I went through tribulation, and I realized it took tribulation to actually wake me up. That was me. But this is such a good. [00:54:55] Speaker C: I mean, I think that's important for all believers, is just to stay in a constant mindset of reproofing that you could be wrong. Even, like, especially reading the scriptures and stuff. It's like, I might be wrong at this. I might, you know, and I always try to challenge myself when, like, let me view it from this person's perspective. And I've, you know, been in many arguments and debates and. But, you know, that's kind of how you grow, too. And at times is that struggle when you're having the word debates or you're. You're battling with people, even on just a secular level, you know, diamonds are formed under pressure, and that's that iron. You know, a lot of times there's. Sparks will fly when the Iron is sharpened in itself. And ultimately it's like part of that going through the kiln, through the fire, through the affliction, like Yahuwah talks about in Isaiah, that, you know, I'm taking you through this affliction because of, you know, it's so that I can mold you and shape you into the clay, into that, into the Messiah that I've called you to be, that have called you out of. [00:56:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Well, there you go. So is it possible for a narcissist to become an empath? Yes, we do. So by following the example of Yeshua, he was the ultimate empath. He was not narcissistic. He had no, no delusions of grandeur, wasn't prideful, always did the father's will. [00:56:27] Speaker B: I personally think that the best way to get to that point, even if you think you are a little bit narcissistic, is close your mouth and listen. [00:56:38] Speaker A: Good advice. [00:56:39] Speaker B: Yeah, just listen. [00:56:41] Speaker A: Listen twice as much as you talk. [00:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker A: Well, cool. Well, that brings us to our hour, guys. Is there anything you wanted to say before we go? [00:56:54] Speaker B: No, this is still a new topic to me, so it's kind of new as. Kind of learning it as well as we go. [00:57:01] Speaker A: So, yeah, I'm thankful. I mean, the more I learn about this, the more it opens up things because it actually gives you things that you can identify, like labels that you can identify, like the just understanding, like religious narcissism, like the God complex. I mean, that explains so much. Like somebody who literally thinks, you know, and it's funny because it's not like they think that they are the creator, it's that they are self centered, they are their own. And I'm reminded of the man of sin, the son of perdition, who sits in the temple of God as God, showing himself that he is God. And that is so indicative of like religious narcissists, people who think they're rich, but really they're poor. Just like the Laodiceans. It's like you think you're so rich, you're so wealthy, you've got this massive resume of accomplishments when really it amounts to nothing. It's like, what have you really done to help people? And a lot of times really helping people is first you take care of your own problems, but then you also honestly help people from a position of mental strength, really, to where you're able to actually listen to them in order to help identify issues rather than trying to be the one who has to be the know it all. I'm guilty of that. One sometimes thinking I know it all. [00:58:20] Speaker B: Well, when I was on fire in the beginning, I was that way. I grabbed the Bible and I wanted to beat everybody over the head with it. [00:58:27] Speaker A: I will have to tell some stories Monday when David's on, we'll have to tell some stories about me doing that. David was one of the ones that they used to say that when I would preach, I'd preach to the entire building. I used to think I was always right about everything. But anyway, this is a lot of fun, guys. I really appreciate you guys coming on. This is a good topic. I enjoy learning about this. Tomorrow we are, I think learning Paul should be back tomorrow and we're going to learn about listening skills. Listening, believe it or not, is there. There's really good tips and tricks for how you can become a better listener. And tomorrow we're going to talk about that kind of stuff. So that'll be fun. So thanks again, everyone, for coming. God bless you guys. Shalom. Shalom. Shalom.